Dedicated to all of the holy Bnos Yisrael, who quietly and modestly maintain the integrity of the Jewish people and serve as the backbone of everything good in this world.
From the news:
In what was thought to be a battle already won, Rabbi Mordechai Willig, an influential scholar at Yeshiva University, is questioning the widespread practice of women learning Talmud, a program that YU has expanded with pride in recent years.
In an article published last week, Rabbi Willig, at rosh yeshiva at YU since 1973, suggested that the “inclusion of Talmud in curricula for all women in Modern Orthodox schools” be re-evaluated.
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I have a lot to say on this topic and don't know where to begin. But I have to begin somewhere and don't have the time to write a long discussion, so here is the short of it.
One of the most basic qualities of any Jewish person who wants to fulfill his purpose in life is the middah of humility. It is sooooooo oddd to me that people who know far less that one percent of what Rabbi Willig knows feel themselves qualified to be his barei plugta [hold contrary views]. What puts these people in his league? How much do they know compared to him?? You look on these silly comment sections and you see that every other housewife and accountant feels him/herself qualified to argue with someone who has been teaching and studying Torah at the highest level for over 40 years.
I am not hear to "defend" Rabbi Willig. I am not his talmid [besides one or two shiurim I once heard in Morasha Kollel back when George Bush Sr. was President] and am not zoche to know him. I am defending the integrity of our tradition. It has never happened in history that anyone with enough hand eye coordination to press certain keys felt themselves worthy of publicly arguing halachic matters with world renowned experts. The notion is so very absurd and so runs against the grain of everything our mesorah is that I am at loss [despite my own sound hand eye coordination] as to what to write.
These people [in most or all cases] don't even present questions or proofs for their positions. They just glibly and vociferously assert that the Rabbi is dead wrong and they, of course, are right. Without a doubt. That is not the way halachic discourse generally functions. There must be room for doubt as big questions are far too complex as to be black and white. UNLESS, one has overwhelming proof that they are right. Has anyone had a revelation from G-d or any other such compelling proof?? What makes them so sure that "avodat Hashem of girls is enhanced by advanced Talmud study". There are numerous statements in Chazal that say the exact opposite. [Some argue "they were wrong" or "they were a product of their times" but such arguments, if accepted enable us to neatly discard our whole tradition ח"ו].
So pu-leaseeeeee! HUMILITY. Know thine place. I like to say "When I want your opinion - I will tell it to you". If I were to write an article arguing with world class biologists I would be a fool. It is true that I got a 75 on my Bio regents in 9th grade but that still doesn't qualify me to argue with people far my superiors. It only qualified me to go on to tenth grade.[[Bad move. Wasn't for me].
As far as the issue itself of womens study of Talmud in the MO world is concerned - it is beyond absurd. As I have written many times - the boys graduating from MO high schools are virtually illiterate - so why will the girls be any different? The other day I asked a boy what it means when he says in the morning מודה אני. He looked at me for a moment, thought about it [clearly for the first time] and said "I admit". Notwithstanding Rav Kook's beautiful passage in the Siddur Olas Ri-iyah, this story illustrates the complete ignorance of our students. I have thousands of stories from over 20 years of teaching which baffle my imagination. So many kids who don't know the names of the Hebrew months, when holidays fall out, basic basic halachos [some never heard of washing hands in the morning], some don't know the aleph beis by heart, none know what chalitzah is [they ALWAYS have her spitting in his shoe] or most halachos in the Torah and even the story parts they aften don't know [except for the really famous ones] etc. etc. So why teach girls to remain ignorant like the boys? Teach them the halachos they need to know. Teach them yiras shomayim, aggados chazal, pirkei avos etc. etc. A girl really needs to know the source for the payment of מיטב? Or what land is paid to a baal chov as opposed to a ksubah payment as opposed to nezikin. WHO CARES? Most [if not all] girls I have ever met really don't. Boys must care because they have a biblical obligation to care. Girls don't.
I have merited to teach many girls. I have never met or even heard of ONE, who had a serious desire to become a real talmidah chachama. That is because this would require to do what the men do, namely, sit in a beis medrash with chavrusas for years and years and years, 12 plus hours a day, analyzing complex Rashba's and trying to make sense of obscure glosses of the Raavad. What bas yisrael wants to do that?
"OK Chani, take your gemara and kovetz meforshim on Yevamos and go through the WHOLE thing with Ruchi and in six months you will have a bechina on it. Don't forget your Mossad HaRav Kook Ritva with the endless footnotes. And remember, if you can't give a good chaburah on Zikah, no boy will be interested in marrying you and you will be alone forever."
BARUCH HASHEM!!! Klal yisrael has scholars. We need mothers, baalos chesed, servants of Hashem filled with modesty and humility, people who respect and don't revile authority, wives who are self effacing so that their husbands and children can grow in their avodas Hashem. That is not a post-modern idea. Sacrifice my own personal glory for someone else? But in fact, it is the highest Jewish value. That is how, for example, Rav Chaim Knievsky [and every other gadol and tzadik] live. They give up of their time, share their wisdom, lose their privacy, sleep and comfort, in the interest of helping others.
That is the midah of Hashem. He is ALSO not interested in Himself [for He lacks nothing] but in helping us achieve our goals and fulfill our purpose. Klal Yisrael would not have had a Chofetz Chaim if not for Mrs. Chofetz Chaim. We would not have had a Rav Aharon Lichtenstein if not for Dr. Lichtenstein [his wife] who realized that Klal Yisrael would benefit far more from her if she prepared her husband's meals that in she spent that time studying gemara and told him to go hungry or make his own dinner [despite her distinguished lineage].
Do women have no spiritual purpose other than helping their husband and children grow? Well, that is certainly a primary task, as clearly spelled out by the gemara [Brachos 17]. In addition, every woman has her specific purpose. She should be connected to holy, very knowledgable, spiritual guides who will help them realize their unique potential within the framework of the familial obligations.
This jettisoning of authority, this attitude of "I want to get close to G-d and no Rabbi is going to tell me what to do" undermines the roots and building blocks of our tradition. We have rules and we have a hierarchy. People who decide that Torah is the wild west and everybody can do as they personally see fit are endangering the future of our people. We can't let anarchy rule. Torah is not a talk back page on the Internet.
That was the short of it. If I offended anyone - I apologize and that was not my intention. I do ask that people question where their opinions stem from. Is it REALLY about fulfilling the will of Hashem or is there something here about a power struggle, about superimposing ideas that have just become popular in the last few years onto a hallowed tradition of thousands of years for which Jews, men and women, were willing to die.
I echo the words of Rav Kook. Men represent cold intellect which is needed for intense never ending gemara analysis. Women represent emotion and feeling. Let us not turn our women into men. It won't be good for either gender and certainly not for our children. Women have beautiful feminine qualities which should be nurtured and not ignored because they want to be like the guys. Women of course have intellect as well - but it is not the same as that of men and that should be reflected in the education they receive.
In summary - 1] The basis of our mesorah is accepting Rabbinical authority. 2] Before arguing with someone care should be taken to ensure that one is on the level to argue with that person. 3] Women are different than men. 4] We are here to serve G-d and not ourselves.
יהי שם השם מבורך מעתה ועד עולם!!!
“While the gedolim [outstanding rabbis] of the 20th century saw Torah study to be a way to keep women close to our mesorah [tradition], an egalitarian attitude has colored some women’s study of Talmud and led them to embrace and advocate egalitarian ideas and practices which are unacceptable to those very gedolim,” he wrote.
He cited the rise of women’s ordination and egalitarian services as causes to re-evaluate, implying a kind of slippery slope from women’s learning to more liberal forms of Jewish practice.
The article, first posted on a Torah website, struck a nerve in many quarters of an Orthodox community that has touted the advances of and increasing opportunities for serious Talmud study among women. A number of community leaders, educators and students responded swiftly and sharply to Rabbi Willig’s article, mainly on social media.
“This is the type of article that would make me leave YU,” posted one student on Facebook, followed by a chain of more than 100 comments.
The principal of a large Orthodox girl’s high school in Teaneck, N.J., responded with a public Facebook statement defending the study of Talmud for women. “Far from being a subversive force, the movement to advance women’s Talmud Torah continually deepens the avodat Hashem [service of God] of individuals and our community,” wrote Rivka Kahan, principal of Ma’ayanot high school.
Rabbi David Silber, founder and dean of Drisha Institute, which offers advanced studies in Jewish learning for women, told The Jewish Week: “I find it troubling that a Rosh Yeshiva has so little faith in Torah that he imagines that Torah study can be a destructive force in Jewish life.”
-----------
I have a lot to say on this topic and don't know where to begin. But I have to begin somewhere and don't have the time to write a long discussion, so here is the short of it.
One of the most basic qualities of any Jewish person who wants to fulfill his purpose in life is the middah of humility. It is sooooooo oddd to me that people who know far less that one percent of what Rabbi Willig knows feel themselves qualified to be his barei plugta [hold contrary views]. What puts these people in his league? How much do they know compared to him?? You look on these silly comment sections and you see that every other housewife and accountant feels him/herself qualified to argue with someone who has been teaching and studying Torah at the highest level for over 40 years.
I am not hear to "defend" Rabbi Willig. I am not his talmid [besides one or two shiurim I once heard in Morasha Kollel back when George Bush Sr. was President] and am not zoche to know him. I am defending the integrity of our tradition. It has never happened in history that anyone with enough hand eye coordination to press certain keys felt themselves worthy of publicly arguing halachic matters with world renowned experts. The notion is so very absurd and so runs against the grain of everything our mesorah is that I am at loss [despite my own sound hand eye coordination] as to what to write.
These people [in most or all cases] don't even present questions or proofs for their positions. They just glibly and vociferously assert that the Rabbi is dead wrong and they, of course, are right. Without a doubt. That is not the way halachic discourse generally functions. There must be room for doubt as big questions are far too complex as to be black and white. UNLESS, one has overwhelming proof that they are right. Has anyone had a revelation from G-d or any other such compelling proof?? What makes them so sure that "avodat Hashem of girls is enhanced by advanced Talmud study". There are numerous statements in Chazal that say the exact opposite. [Some argue "they were wrong" or "they were a product of their times" but such arguments, if accepted enable us to neatly discard our whole tradition ח"ו].
So pu-leaseeeeee! HUMILITY. Know thine place. I like to say "When I want your opinion - I will tell it to you". If I were to write an article arguing with world class biologists I would be a fool. It is true that I got a 75 on my Bio regents in 9th grade but that still doesn't qualify me to argue with people far my superiors. It only qualified me to go on to tenth grade.[[Bad move. Wasn't for me].
As far as the issue itself of womens study of Talmud in the MO world is concerned - it is beyond absurd. As I have written many times - the boys graduating from MO high schools are virtually illiterate - so why will the girls be any different? The other day I asked a boy what it means when he says in the morning מודה אני. He looked at me for a moment, thought about it [clearly for the first time] and said "I admit". Notwithstanding Rav Kook's beautiful passage in the Siddur Olas Ri-iyah, this story illustrates the complete ignorance of our students. I have thousands of stories from over 20 years of teaching which baffle my imagination. So many kids who don't know the names of the Hebrew months, when holidays fall out, basic basic halachos [some never heard of washing hands in the morning], some don't know the aleph beis by heart, none know what chalitzah is [they ALWAYS have her spitting in his shoe] or most halachos in the Torah and even the story parts they aften don't know [except for the really famous ones] etc. etc. So why teach girls to remain ignorant like the boys? Teach them the halachos they need to know. Teach them yiras shomayim, aggados chazal, pirkei avos etc. etc. A girl really needs to know the source for the payment of מיטב? Or what land is paid to a baal chov as opposed to a ksubah payment as opposed to nezikin. WHO CARES? Most [if not all] girls I have ever met really don't. Boys must care because they have a biblical obligation to care. Girls don't.
I have merited to teach many girls. I have never met or even heard of ONE, who had a serious desire to become a real talmidah chachama. That is because this would require to do what the men do, namely, sit in a beis medrash with chavrusas for years and years and years, 12 plus hours a day, analyzing complex Rashba's and trying to make sense of obscure glosses of the Raavad. What bas yisrael wants to do that?
"OK Chani, take your gemara and kovetz meforshim on Yevamos and go through the WHOLE thing with Ruchi and in six months you will have a bechina on it. Don't forget your Mossad HaRav Kook Ritva with the endless footnotes. And remember, if you can't give a good chaburah on Zikah, no boy will be interested in marrying you and you will be alone forever."
BARUCH HASHEM!!! Klal yisrael has scholars. We need mothers, baalos chesed, servants of Hashem filled with modesty and humility, people who respect and don't revile authority, wives who are self effacing so that their husbands and children can grow in their avodas Hashem. That is not a post-modern idea. Sacrifice my own personal glory for someone else? But in fact, it is the highest Jewish value. That is how, for example, Rav Chaim Knievsky [and every other gadol and tzadik] live. They give up of their time, share their wisdom, lose their privacy, sleep and comfort, in the interest of helping others.
That is the midah of Hashem. He is ALSO not interested in Himself [for He lacks nothing] but in helping us achieve our goals and fulfill our purpose. Klal Yisrael would not have had a Chofetz Chaim if not for Mrs. Chofetz Chaim. We would not have had a Rav Aharon Lichtenstein if not for Dr. Lichtenstein [his wife] who realized that Klal Yisrael would benefit far more from her if she prepared her husband's meals that in she spent that time studying gemara and told him to go hungry or make his own dinner [despite her distinguished lineage].
Do women have no spiritual purpose other than helping their husband and children grow? Well, that is certainly a primary task, as clearly spelled out by the gemara [Brachos 17]. In addition, every woman has her specific purpose. She should be connected to holy, very knowledgable, spiritual guides who will help them realize their unique potential within the framework of the familial obligations.
This jettisoning of authority, this attitude of "I want to get close to G-d and no Rabbi is going to tell me what to do" undermines the roots and building blocks of our tradition. We have rules and we have a hierarchy. People who decide that Torah is the wild west and everybody can do as they personally see fit are endangering the future of our people. We can't let anarchy rule. Torah is not a talk back page on the Internet.
That was the short of it. If I offended anyone - I apologize and that was not my intention. I do ask that people question where their opinions stem from. Is it REALLY about fulfilling the will of Hashem or is there something here about a power struggle, about superimposing ideas that have just become popular in the last few years onto a hallowed tradition of thousands of years for which Jews, men and women, were willing to die.
I echo the words of Rav Kook. Men represent cold intellect which is needed for intense never ending gemara analysis. Women represent emotion and feeling. Let us not turn our women into men. It won't be good for either gender and certainly not for our children. Women have beautiful feminine qualities which should be nurtured and not ignored because they want to be like the guys. Women of course have intellect as well - but it is not the same as that of men and that should be reflected in the education they receive.
In summary - 1] The basis of our mesorah is accepting Rabbinical authority. 2] Before arguing with someone care should be taken to ensure that one is on the level to argue with that person. 3] Women are different than men. 4] We are here to serve G-d and not ourselves.
יהי שם השם מבורך מעתה ועד עולם!!!
