Monday, August 14, 2017

Land For Peace - Round 3

Rav Ovadiah argues that we can't wage war because we don't have the אורים ותומים, סנהדרין and מלך which the Ramban himself paskened that we require in order to wage war [ספר המצות י"ז]. 

Rav Yisraeli questions this on a number of accounts. How could the חשמונאים wage war when during their time there was no אורים ותומים? There is a halacha that even בזמן הזה we may wage war even on Shabbos in order to protect a border city [see further]. How can we wage war without the אורים ותומים etc.?

The answer is that the requirements of אורים ותומים, סנהדרין and מלך are only לכתחילה but if we don't have them they aren't מעכב. [The Rambam never mentioned אורים ותומים in his discussion in פרק ה' מהלכות מלכים of the prerequisites for going out to battle]. 

There is also the famous חידוש of Rav Kook [משפט כהן סי' קמ"ד] that when we have no individual king all of his powers are transferred to the nation at large.    

Rav Ovadiah makes an assertion that there is only a mitzva according to the Ramban if we live here כאדם העושה בתוך שלו - as a person would live in his own property. And since the Arabs are here too, there is no mitzva so we may give them land.

There are a number of problems with this assertion, the biggest being that the Ramban never said that and it is tenuous to claim that he meant it, thereby negating the fulfillment of what is in all likelihood a מצוה מדאורייתא. Rav Yisraeli rejects this on other grounds as well.   

Rav Yisraeli then goes into a lengthy discussion about the halacha [שו"ע סי' שכ"ט] that if the goyim are going to attack a border city even for money [and not to kill] we must be מחלל שבת in order to protect ourselves. So how can we GIVE AWAY land that will endanger Jews. The Lubavitcher Rebbe [who was a very strong "hawk" and constantly repeated that it is forbidden to give them land because of this halacha.] 

As the Rambam puts it:

"עובדי כוכבים שצרו על עיירות ישראל, אם באו על עסקי ממון - אין מחללין עליהן את השבת, ואין עושין עמהן מלחמה. ובעיר הסמוכה לספר, אפילו לא באו אלא על עסקי תבן וקש - יוצאין עליהן בכלי זין, ומחללין עליהן את השבת. ובכל מקום, אם באו על עסקי נפשות, או שערכו מלחמה, או שצרו סתם - יוצאין עליהן בכלי זין, ומחללין עליהן את השבת" (רמב"ם, הלכות שבת ב', כג).

So his conclusion is NO WAY may we give the Arabs "land for peace".


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A point I once heard: Let us say that tomorrow the Israelis would put down their weapons, disband the army and tell the Arabs - "We want peace". Within hours we would all be goners ח"ו. There would be a horrific massacre, a Holocaust. 

Let us say the Arabs would put down THEIR weapons and proclaim a desire for peace? Within FIVE MINUTES there would be peace in the Middle East. 

That says it all.