After mentioning that Ben Shapiro and Yoram Hazony are against the whole LGBT Tumah he writes: "I agree that we live in times that call for courageous leadership. But Shapiro and Hazony want to see Orthodox leaders taking the gloves off, and getting stuck into the fight against “the LGBT agenda,” against identity politics, cancel culture, and the transgressive forces of the left. I would urge that something very different is called for right now."
UH OH. This isn't going in the right direction.
He writes: "I don’t deny that the Torah contains an explicit prohibition, seemingly [???] against penetrative homosexual intercourse [רש"י ויקרא כ, י"ג כמכניס מכחול בשפופרת]. Having said that, we should be very clear. It has proven pretty much impossible to find any independently plausible philosophical argument upon which to claim that homosexual sex between consenting adults constitutes anything at all immoral." [He then adds that he doesn't deny that the Torah forbids it. But it is not immoral. He then quotes the Rambam who says that עריות are a חוק we can't understand. It could well be that the Rambam was referring to אשת איש and other עריות but not to the prohibition of homosexuality which makes a whole lot of sense to many of us].
I am not a philosopher - just a guy. But how does one philosophically prove just about ANYTHING immoral?? Morality is defined as "principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior." A VERY subjective concept. People argue that murder is moral [under certain circumstances]. Abortion? The BIGGEST mitzva, according to some. [We recently covered the radical-feminist "Orthodox" organization that promotes abortion as being preferable to childbirth רח"ל]. Is adultery immoral? Many people could argue - no. She is willing. He is willing. Why not [just don't tell the spouse]? Is incest immoral? Why yes?? The sister wants. The brother wants. This is the way they express love. Is bestiality immoral? Why yes? He wants. The cow wants [or at least doesn't express verbal objection]. The entire premise that we need a "philosophically plausible argument" that something is immoral in order for it to be immoral is totally baseless. Hashem said that it is immoral or at least evil. It is the sin for which we get sent packing into galus. We are warned about it again and again and again. He called it a תועבה. He grouped it with other acts of sexual immorality. He mandated the DEATH PENALTY. Why is that not enough???
He writes "I can only see it as a positive development for heterosexual marriage if homosexual couples want to celebrate the values of monogamy and commitment that have so broken down in society at large".
It is actually a MAJOR threat as it endangers, undermines and erodes the very basis of the Jewish people - the nuclear family. Mother, father and children. It is also the arch-enemy of our mandate to the world which is קדושים תהיו. Two men naked in a bed fulfilling their illicit, unholy, ungodly and [as the Ibn Ezra and others argue] unnatural desires is anything but holy and brings spiritual and moral ruin to the world.
As an aside it is worth remembering:
He writes: "I don’t deny that the Torah contains an explicit prohibition, seemingly [???] against penetrative homosexual intercourse [רש"י ויקרא כ, י"ג כמכניס מכחול בשפופרת]. Having said that, we should be very clear. It has proven pretty much impossible to find any independently plausible philosophical argument upon which to claim that homosexual sex between consenting adults constitutes anything at all immoral." [He then adds that he doesn't deny that the Torah forbids it. But it is not immoral. He then quotes the Rambam who says that עריות are a חוק we can't understand. It could well be that the Rambam was referring to אשת איש and other עריות but not to the prohibition of homosexuality which makes a whole lot of sense to many of us].
I am not a philosopher - just a guy. But how does one philosophically prove just about ANYTHING immoral?? Morality is defined as "principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior." A VERY subjective concept. People argue that murder is moral [under certain circumstances]. Abortion? The BIGGEST mitzva, according to some. [We recently covered the radical-feminist "Orthodox" organization that promotes abortion as being preferable to childbirth רח"ל]. Is adultery immoral? Many people could argue - no. She is willing. He is willing. Why not [just don't tell the spouse]? Is incest immoral? Why yes?? The sister wants. The brother wants. This is the way they express love. Is bestiality immoral? Why yes? He wants. The cow wants [or at least doesn't express verbal objection]. The entire premise that we need a "philosophically plausible argument" that something is immoral in order for it to be immoral is totally baseless. Hashem said that it is immoral or at least evil. It is the sin for which we get sent packing into galus. We are warned about it again and again and again. He called it a תועבה. He grouped it with other acts of sexual immorality. He mandated the DEATH PENALTY. Why is that not enough???
He writes "I can only see it as a positive development for heterosexual marriage if homosexual couples want to celebrate the values of monogamy and commitment that have so broken down in society at large".
REALLY?? Heterosexuals need homosexuals to show them how to value monogamy??? Homosexuals are models of loyalty and faithfulness?? I would NEVER KNOW how to be faithful to my wife but THANK G-D I have the likes of Modi to teach me how!!
"Given that realization, and even if Jewish law remains maximally inhospitable to what Hazony calls “the LGBT agenda”, it seems inappropriate for Orthodox leaders to get particularly het [??] up, as if the understandable desire of single-sex couples to live out their lives and their loving commitment to one another in public constituted some sort of moral outrage. It doesn’t."
Most parents would really prefer that their children NOT be homosexual. Even non-Jewish parents. Many many homosexuals themselves wish that they weren't for a number of reasons. The fact that society legitimizes it most surely draws people into the fold who would otherwise go the traditional route of man-woman. That is why in only the last few years we see an alarming rise in the number of people who are openly proudly homosexual. It is not only OK but actually a source of "Pride". Like if you gave a kidney or something. Many many many people feel visceral moral outrage when "Pride" is displayed. It is an affront to, among other things - KEDUSHA. That is why the איסור is in Parshas קדושים תהיו.
Admittedly, there is one page of the Talmud that celebrates the fact that, even if homosexuality is widely practiced, at least the Gentile nations agree with Jewish law that there can be no formal marriage between two men (Tractate Chullin 92b). Moreover, there is a Midrash that suggests that the flood, in the time of Noah, was precipitated by the institution of homosexual marriage (Bereshit Rabba 26:5). But two isolated aggadic texts don’t constitute an argument for moral outrage.
He concludes: "And whatever the Torah might have to say about gay marriage, true Torah leadership will have to come from a place of understanding that when two people fall in love, and want to commit the rest of their lives, one to the other, and build a family on the basis of their love and fidelity, there is nothing there that should threaten us or our values." In other words - Torah leaders have to be more woke and despite the Torah's abhorrence for even one act of homosexuality - the Rabbis should be OK with thousands of such acts in the context of "marriage"!!
"Given that realization, and even if Jewish law remains maximally inhospitable to what Hazony calls “the LGBT agenda”, it seems inappropriate for Orthodox leaders to get particularly het [??] up, as if the understandable desire of single-sex couples to live out their lives and their loving commitment to one another in public constituted some sort of moral outrage. It doesn’t."
Most parents would really prefer that their children NOT be homosexual. Even non-Jewish parents. Many many homosexuals themselves wish that they weren't for a number of reasons. The fact that society legitimizes it most surely draws people into the fold who would otherwise go the traditional route of man-woman. That is why in only the last few years we see an alarming rise in the number of people who are openly proudly homosexual. It is not only OK but actually a source of "Pride". Like if you gave a kidney or something. Many many many people feel visceral moral outrage when "Pride" is displayed. It is an affront to, among other things - KEDUSHA. That is why the איסור is in Parshas קדושים תהיו.
Admittedly, there is one page of the Talmud that celebrates the fact that, even if homosexuality is widely practiced, at least the Gentile nations agree with Jewish law that there can be no formal marriage between two men (Tractate Chullin 92b). Moreover, there is a Midrash that suggests that the flood, in the time of Noah, was precipitated by the institution of homosexual marriage (Bereshit Rabba 26:5). But two isolated aggadic texts don’t constitute an argument for moral outrage.
Actually the moral outrage comes not from the text [even though one could easily argue that "two isolated aggadic texts" DO constitute an argument for moral outrage] but from our innate sense of morality. That is why Torah Jews are far more troubled by homosexuality than they are by, for example, Shatnez or unkosher food. That is also why tens of millions of non-Jews are against same sex marriage. The number of those in favor has reached record highs [about 60 percent in the US according to Pew] b/c of all of the media brainwashing - not b/c it is suddenly pure and holy. They just believe that תאוות are there to be actualized and if two men do it for you then go for it. Torah Jews know that illicit תאוות exist in order to be conquered and overcome.
He then advances the argument that the Torah permits slavery even though it is not the moral ideal and in our world we no longer have slaves. So too, the Torah forbade homosexuality even though it wasn't the ideal to prohibit it, so maybe now it can be permitted. He doesn't mean to compare the two, but still..... Obviously- לא קרב זה אל זה. It is not even worth responding. The Torah itself indicates that it is against slavery [which is why we must free our slaves] and human beings innately know that the ideal is for one to be free and not owned as the property of another human being. [We discussed avdus at great length elsewhere - ואכמ"ל. See here]. There is no indication that the Torah has anything but complete disdain for homosexuality, which as we saw is a capital offense - and יהרג ואל יעבור.
It is actually a MAJOR threat as it endangers, undermines and erodes the very basis of the Jewish people - the nuclear family. Mother, father and children. It is also the arch-enemy of our mandate to the world which is קדושים תהיו. Two men naked in a bed fulfilling their illicit, unholy, ungodly and [as the Ibn Ezra and others argue] unnatural desires is anything but holy and brings spiritual and moral ruin to the world.
As an aside it is worth remembering:
בשער הגילגולים (מכתבי האר"י) מופיע העונש הצפוי למקיימים יחסי מין הומוסקסואלים: "הבא על הזכר, יתגלגל בשפן או בארנבת".
So next time you are talking to a rabbit - you will understand maybe why you are a human gifted with amazing human attributes such as intelligence and lives in a house and drives a car while he is a homeless brainless rabbit who can't read or add 2 plus 2 or have deep human feelings or spirituality etc. etc.
